Gay Marriage

[bradygirl_12]

In the cold light of morning, I'm still pleased at the election results for President but disappointed (though not surprised) that every gay marriage referendum ended up as a victory for the anti-marriage faction. Remember, Obama doesn't support gay marriage, and Bill Clinton, the so-called friend of gays, turtled on the gays-in-the-military issue the very first week of his presidency and also presided during the passage of the abominable Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and the Defense of Marriage Act. It's going to be a long struggle and we probably won't see permanent gay marriage in our lifetimes across the board, but the seeds HAVE been planted and hopefully, will someday bear fruit.

Comments

[bradygirl_12]

But isn't it true that civil unions don't have the full rights of marriage?

I agree that everyone had different opinions on this, but it just seems like a second-class thing to me for gay to have civil unions and straights to have marriage.

[bradygirl_12]

Ah. *nods* Okay!

[juniper617.livejournal.com]

We have Civil Unions in NJ and they do, in fact, provide exactly the same rights and protections as marriage; they just have a different name. While I strongly disagree with the state legislature's decision to reserve the word 'marriage' for straight couples, it still seems to me that Civil Unions are a huge step forward from Nothing at All. And I think that after a generation or two of Civil Unions, we'll probably be ready to drop the difference in terminology.

Here's a completely true story: I live in a really ordinary town in central NJ, and my 13 year old daughter has so far had two openly gay teachers in the public schools, and her current principal -- the principal of the only Middle School in the town -- is a lesbian who's totally "out." Now, I went to these *same schools* 30 years earlier, and there may have been gay teachers but they sure as hell weren't telling anyone. And no way would the School Board or the parents have condoned the idea of putting a lesbian in a position of authority over hundreds of children. Surely this, too, is progress.

I'm not happy about all of these states rushing to ban gay marriage. But change doesn't happen overnight. I think we actually might see gay marriage in our lifetimes, certainly I believe it will happen in my kids' lifetime.

[bradygirl_12]

Encouraging, Juniper!

And of course your icon is perfect. ;)

[juniper617.livejournal.com]

And of course your icon is perfect. ;)

*giggles* I've been waiting for an appropriate post for that icon!

[svgurl.livejournal.com]

I'm happy about Obama but I'm so sad about the gay marriage bans. they've already passed in Florida and Arizona and I think it'll pass in CA too. I'm heartbroken. :(

[bradygirl_12]

Yeah, it pretty much sucks.

I guess in this case the silver cloud has a dark lining. :(

[stinglikeabee.livejournal.com]

Obama doesn't support gay marriage, true, but also said it's up to the states to decide. *sigh*

I just thought finally, with Vermont and MA leading the way, CA would be that beacon of change for the country. /is crushed

[bradygirl_12]

California has this liberal rep but the anti-marriage group must otuweight the pro-marriage.

Guess we're still the lone gay marriage beacon!

[rocaw.livejournal.com]

I really, really thought we would defeat this absurd and hateful Prop 8. It's frustrating and upsetting that the final tally did not favor those of us voting no. =(

[bradygirl_12]

It's a shame, but homophobia is very deep-seated in this country. Just about every country, actually, sad to say.

[juniper617.livejournal.com]

Gay marriage is legal in Canada.

[bradygirl_12]

*nods*

It's one of very few that allow it. Just about every other country doesn't, though. :(

[juniper617.livejournal.com]

Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, South Africa; Basque regions of Spain and Portugal allow same-sex common law marriage; and several other Western European countries either already have or are debating Civil Unions, including France, Germany, and Great Britain.

Or so says my little sister, who knows stuff like that off the top of her head. ;)

(I will not allow you to sink into a depression over this issue, because dammit, woman, you've got *fics* to write!)

[bradygirl_12]

*grins*

It is depressing in some ways, but not surprising. There are places of hope, though, which is encouraging.

And I'm still writing! :)

[shelly505.livejournal.com]

I'm so happy Obama won, as I suporrted him.
But I hate that he doesnt support gay marriage!
It makes me sad :'(

[bradygirl_12]

It's sure a frustrating dichotomy, isn't it?

[dark-eyed-brat.livejournal.com]

Its Ironic really, Obama being on the ballot is probably what pushed the Marriage Ban over the top. African Americans voted 70 to 30 to pass it, and their above average turnout for Obama is probably why it failed.

Whatever, glad you got your president though.

[bradygirl_12]

It's sad that some people just can't see others having the same rights that they do. :(

permanent gay marriage in our lifetimes across the board

[ender24]

I think, since also many of your citizens didnt think, they would see a black president in their lifetime, maybe you should and could feel entitled to be more optimistic :D

after all, many of my fellow Germans did not expect to see a female chancellor in their lifetime.
or that both the majors in our official capital Berlin, and unofficial capital Munique (one of the most conservative cities in my country) would be gay.
hence, we have all it ;D
and hence you have a black president elect.

who knows what the nect 30 years will bring :D

Re: permanent gay marriage in our lifetimes across the board

[bradygirl_12]

I hope you're right, Ender!

It may be different here, though. The Religious Right has a lot of power in this country.

uhmm, ok yes, I concede , that bit is indeed confusing me a bit

[ender24]

we are here in Europe not even half doing much fuss about being PC as your country, with all your anti discrimination laws , and affirmative actions and so forth.
how come, your religious right has so much power?!?!

even our yellow press, (who admittedly is not as vicious as the british one) is not tearing the private life of politicians apart as much as they do with stars or European nobility and their indiscretions.
(the only exception would be French Pres. Sarkozy and his exmodel wife Carla, but then, he uses the press, so they use him back...)

and it would be totally un-PC.

Re: uhmm, ok yes, I concede , that bit is indeed confusing me a bit

[bradygirl_12]

A lot of it has to do with history. The country was originally founded not just by people seeking to make their fortune, but by religious zealots trying to escape persecution in Europe (the Pilgrims). The Puritanical ethic remained strong (why we lack decent vacation time, idleness is the devil's workshop, and other nonsense, and our mixed-up views on sex!) and the God factor has stayed strong in certain parts of the country. Fundamentalists have a lot of power here and fleece people on a regular basis through their television shows and other scams.

People like to be led. If they're told what to do, eat, believe, etc., they don't have to think for themselves. Unfortunately, a lot of Americans seem to like that path in life.

The Puritanical ethic remained strong

[ender24]

I guess, the puritanical ethic stuff is somewhat more... theory ?
I preen my english to be pretty good, and its seldom, that I came across an article, that I have to read like 3 times, and still maybe understand 10%:
Dept. of Disputation: Red Sex, Blue Sex: Reporting & Essays: The New Yorker

I am not kidding you, if I wasnt so busy today, I would have put that article in my LJ, and ask my flist to explain it in simple words to me, coz there are so many words and vocab used in that article, that I never heard , much less understand, it could have well be written in russian...

Re: The Puritanical ethic remained strong

[bradygirl_12]

I'll have to read that! :)

In other news, gay couples in Connecticut began getting married today instead of 'civil unions'. :)

[barbaragray1212.livejournal.com]

I live in Scotland. I've attended three weddings this past year. one church and two civil ceremonies, all straight couples. My husband and myself wed in a civil ceremony 28years ago.It's popular here, always has been. It's been just about a year since same sex became legal, but now that it is it can't be overturned. It's law now. Also, in the Scottish Presbetarien church it's up to each individual minister I believe if they will conduct a ceremony. and some have done so. The world is changing and for the better.

[bradygirl_12]

Very encouraging to hear, Barbara!

I hope that change can come faster here in the U.S.